Technical Oil from small pipe/grommet of cam cover

[Jodsclass]

Hi Everyone.

I’ve got a weird small oil leak just under the air box on the cam cover. There seems to be a plastic pipe with stopper in on top of the cam cover. I cleared all traces of oil residue from the front of the engine a few days back & when I’ve checked today there is a small amount around this pipe. Does anyone know what this is for & why it would be leaking oil?

It's a 2017 1.2

Any help much appreciated because I've never seen this on our older pandas.

 

[steveras57]

Something like this has been on the forum recently someone who knows might point you to the answer!

 

[Jodsclass]

Can anyone help with this? I tried to seal it with adhesive, but It's still managing to leak out.

 

[steveras57]

Did you try sealing from the outside? might have to remove the cover and try from the inside! might be worth trying using RTV sealant rather than just glue!

 

[Jodsclass]

Did you try sealing from the outside? might have to remove the cover and try from the inside! might be worth trying using RTV sealant rather than just glue!

I tried from the outside, couldn't pull the bung out without damaging it, It's stuck really tight & nothing to grab hold of, so cleaned off around the gap and sealed with glue.

I can order some J-B Weld 31314 High Temperature RTV and try cocooning the whole bung with a layer. I'm due to drive up to Manchester from Cornwall at the weekend which is 330 miles, so need a quick fix before I can get in and either permanently seal or if needs must source a replacement cover. That amount of oil was after driving 10 miles this morning.

 

[steveras57]

Its hard to see from the pictures does this bung push in or screw in?
If its screw in ,a bead of rtv around the thread lightly screw in finger tight allow to cure for a few hours then tighten a LITTLE more to squeeze the rubber into the threads.
IF its push in then i doubt it can be sealed effectively so a new cover might be needed!

 

[Jodsclass]

Its hard to see from the pictures does this bung push in or screw in?
If its screw in ,a bead of rtv around the thread lightly screw in finger tight allow to cure for a few hours then tighten a LITTLE more to squeeze the rubber into the threads.
IF its push in then i doubt it can be sealed effectively so a new cover might be needed!

I believe it's push in. Found this other thread & this is the picture that was posted.

Fiat 500 1.2 2017 valve cover leak not from gasket | FIAT 500 (2007+)

So further to my last, I won’t bore you with trying to get help from fiat ……AUS$1400 for a new plastic rocker cover. So, I decided to drill the plug out but as soon as the drill grabbed the plug popped out. So I cleaned it up and used a engine gasket sealant on the first half (narrow part) and...

www.fiatforum.com

 

[steveras57]

I believe it's push in. Found this other thread & this is the picture that was posted.

Fiat 500 1.2 2017 valve cover leak not from gasket | FIAT 500 (2007+)

So further to my last, I won’t bore you with trying to get help from fiat ……AUS$1400 for a new plastic rocker cover. So, I decided to drill the plug out but as soon as the drill grabbed the plug popped out. So I cleaned it up and used a engine gasket sealant on the first half (narrow part) and...

www.fiatforum.com

Suppose it would be worth trying what they did!?

 

[Jodsclass]

Suppose it would be worth trying what they did!?

Yeah, I can try that when I can get hold of a new set of gaskets & a dry day to do it. Was just wondering if there was a way to temporarily patch/slow it so I can at least get us to Manchester & back. Besides taking a drum of oil & filling at every stop depending on how quick it's actually leaking.

I’ve also looked for the rocker/cam cover for the 2017 1.2, and I can't find one available to buy. If anyone has a good source, I'd be interested to know.

 

[steveras57]

Yeah, I can try that when I can get hold of a new set of gaskets & a dry day to do it. Was just wondering if there was a way to temporarily patch/slow it so I can at least get us to Manchester & back. Besides taking a drum of oil & filling at every stop depending on how quick it's actually leaking.

I’ve also looked for the rocker/cam cover for the 2017 1.2, and I can't find one available to buy. If anyone has a good source, I'd be interested to know.

You can do what i suggested with the rtv even if it dont stop it it might slow it down and reduce the oil cosumption and mess it makes!

 

[Jodsclass]

You can do what i suggested with the rtv even if it dont stop it it might slow it down and reduce the oil cosumption and mess it makes!

Just tried again to remove the bung, but it's stuck solid. Will have to try to seal it externally & see how it goes. I can't risk taking the cover off without the new gaskets/o-rings, or I could just go from a small leak to a massive one. Might see if I have anything I can screw into the hole to give me some purchase & pull it out. Don't want to go through the bung, but at least to grab the sides of the centre in the bung. Trying to grab the round edge, the plastic bung just distorts so you can't apply enough pressure to even twist it.

 

[steveras57]

Just tried again to remove the bung, but it's stuck solid. Will have to try to seal it externally & see how it goes. I can't risk taking the cover off without the new gaskets/o-rings, or I could just go from a small leak to a massive one. Might see if I have anything I can screw into the hole to give me some purchase & pull it out. Don't want to go through the bung, but at least to grab the sides of the centre in the bung. Trying to grab the round edge, the plastic bung just distorts so you can't apply enough pressure to even twist it.

If its stuck in that firm maybe if you put something like chemical metal around the outside that would seal it properly / sounds like a new cover is on the card though so its worth doing research to see if there are different makes and specs around?- you might find a re-designed cover or one with a metal rather than plastic bung? .
Hope you have safe journey , still take some top up oil with you( and a supply of clean up rags in case there is a mess!).

 

[Jodsclass]

If its stuck in that firm maybe if you put something like chemical metal around the outside that would seal it properly / sounds like a new cover is on the card though so its worth doing research to see if there are different makes and specs around?- you might find a re-designed cover or one with a metal rather than plastic bung? .
Hope you have safe journey , still take some top up oil with you( and a supply of clean up rags in case there is a mess!).

Will give it a go. I'll also give it a few light but firm taps with a rubber mallet before I seal it again. Maybe if pressure has slightly unseated it, I can lock it back into place. Such a terrible bit of design. So strange though, looking at other 1.2 rocker covers on the inside (pics online), this bung is on the outside of a tube that feeds oil to the top of the cover to coat the cams from above. Surely if that pipe is open internally, even under pressure, the oil would rather fall out of an open hole than push past a bung.

I'll take a litre of oil & can always buy more on the go if needs be. Honestly, my 20-year-old Panda was less dramatic & more bulletproof than this.

 

[Jodsclass]

OK. Possibly the most bodge job I’ve ever done. Tried to remove the bung, no go. Tried tapping it back in with a rubber mallet. No change.

So I cleaned it completely, raided my wife's lotions & potions & stole one of her silicone pipettes. Chopped the end off and strong-armed it over the bung. Cable tied in place. Ran the car up to temperature & it didn't swell or build up any pressure. Revved the engine up to 2.5-3k revs for a few mins, same, no pressure build up & no leakage. The silicone is about 3mm thick, so should be tough enough to hold any small amounts of pressure build up nicely. No idea if it will hold. The car has been idling now for 30 mins and still not a drop. Silicone doesn't feel hot, so it feels like it isn't filling with hot oil.

 

[Jodsclass]

Thought I'd update on this. None of my fixes worked. Fiat suggested I checked all breather hoses, which I checked & actually looked almost pristine inside. A slight amount of mayo on one edge, but clean & clear. Replaced them fully cleared out. The leak got worse & worse until eventually the whole plastic bung on the front gave way & oil was pumped out onto the drive. It's a plastic insert & the bond looks very weak. No screw thread or anything securing it apart from a tiny strip of glue/bond. A definite weak spot. I reckon I lost about 1 litre in the few seconds it was running from starting to popping off. Luckily, my wife was still on the drive & shouted me to stop the engine when she heard the liquid hit the floor.

Replacement cam covers seem to be like hens teeth. My mechanic couldn't find an after market in stock & fiat are now supplying. Dealer network say they don't have one in the UK so it's coming in from Italy with a 15-day lead time. So the car is off the road for the next few weeks. This cap actually covers a pretty main oil feed to the top of the cam cover. The oil came out thick & fast under the pressure of the oil pump. If yours is leaking, I’d start looking for a replacement rocker cover. Fiat know of this issue & the dealer stated the replacement part is now alloy. Annoyingly, they don't consider this a recall, as it seems to happen randomly & the parts department seem to think depends on usage. If this has happened at road speed, it would have only taken seconds to lose the entire oil contents of the engine.

Sad state of affairs. This plastic cam cover is a real downgrade from the old alloy cover we had on our 1.2 panda.

Lastly, a picture of the car, laying dead, & the start of the oil clean up & one of the hole without the bung (which is lost somewhere in the engine bay/bumper assembly). The drive is going to take a lot of cleaning to get the oil out.

 

[John202020]

Use a bespoke oil cleaner like "Gunk" will take 3 or 4 goes be careful where the run off goes might kill lawn/plants

 

[Jodsclass]

Hi Everyone.

Just thought I would update this. The car was off the road for the entire month of May waiting on a new cam cover being sent from Italy to our main dealer. The first came in 16 days, but was the incorrect cover (main dealer ordered the wrong one, WTF). So another two week wait. We eventually enquired about the Ford KA version because the main dealer also supplied ford & they had one in stock. Fitted yesterday. Main dealer price for the replacement alloy cover was £300. I arranged fitting myself.

Ford KA cover is identical to the fiat part with the exception of a single stud sticking out the ECU side for the air box mount. On the fiat part this is a captive nut which you bolt into. It all still fits, will just need a nut on the end of the stud & a few washers. Ford part is also cheaper.

Been out revving the hell out of it & it's perfect. Looking at the manufacture of it, the alloy cover is actually a better design. With the plastic one, when you removed the oil cap, you could see the cams. Now they are behind a secondary plate which distributes oil more evenly to the top of the cam. Also, the plastic one gets so hot being right above the exhaust manifold, so I guess it's only a matter of time until they fail. I now have an entirely alloy engine lump which just feels better.

 

[Danoid]

On the new cover what does the grommet hole look like or doesn’t it exist now?

 

[Jodsclass]

On the new cover what does the grommet hole look like or doesn’t it exist now?

OK. Just been out to photograph. It seems to be integrated & it's all made of alloy. Still has a drilled out section in the middle but its solid. I'm assuming this is either for an engine/head variation which has some sort of oil feed from here, or is left over from the manufacturing process. Makes no sense.

I've also took a pic of the extra captive bolt. On the fiat this is a captive nut/threaded section which takes a bolt. All lines up perfectly and still has the other bolts holding the bracket in place.

 

[puntodeltathema]

Do you still have a part number for this? I wonder if they've simply reverted to the cover they used before the change to the plastic one sometime in 2017?