Technical Is the garage trying to con me - electrics ?

[virtualfern]

Hi

I have a 2009 Fiat 500 which had the generic warning light come up. I replaced the battery as I was told it was not holding charge. The light came back a week later so took to the garage who on plugging it in said the numberplate light was being recorded so they would replace bulbs which they did but they said also the button on the boot was not working but I said I would leave that for now (I always used the key to open it so never realised). When I got home I found the central locking had stopped working and the boot wont open using the button on the key so I took it back. They then said the electrical wiring which is a common issue had perished so needed to be replaced.

Any thoughts ?

Thanks !

 

[A3jeroen]

Hatchwiring desintegrating is a known problem

gr J

 

[virtualfern]

Thanks. It just seems so coincidental

 

[varesecrazy]

Thanks. It just seems so coincidental

Hi,
Presumably they opened the tailgate (boot door / hatchback) to access things,

Opening it flexes the cables, and that is what causes the failure.. Over thousands of opening and closing

You SHOULD Be able to have a peek at the wiring yourself.. For free

Just search

"maybelline"

On here for Lots of info

After 5 posts on here you can post pics

 

[jrkitching]

Any thoughts

Wiring loom failure at the point of entry to the rear hatch is a well known and extremely common problem.

Nothing you've posted thus far would suggest to me that the garage isn't being completely honest with you.

On a 2009 car, it's very likely failed before and been repaired, perhaps multiple times. I expect the last repair has failed again.

 

[John202020]

The generic warning light will have an associated message on the dash AT the point it comes on and only stays on for about 10 seconds so for example if you turn on the lights it can pop up if a number plate light is out, the light stays on but not the message

 

[Baglady1990]

So glad I replaced mine with the silicone kit! I do not understand why ppl just bodge and go as it’s bound to fail again!! Unless of course the car is getting sold on … and the new owner is unaware

 

[AndyRKett]

Hi

I have a 2009 Fiat 500 which had the generic warning light come up. I replaced the battery as I was told it was not holding charge. The light came back a week later so took to the garage who on plugging it in said the numberplate light was being recorded so they would replace bulbs which they did but they said also the button on the boot was not working but I said I would leave that for now (I always used the key to open it so never realised). When I got home I found the central locking had stopped working and the boot wont open using the button on the key so I took it back. They then said the electrical wiring which is a common issue had perished so needed to be replaced.

Any thoughts ?

Thanks !

so they stung you for a battery but the problem was a general warning light (which I should add doesn't come on for the battery)

They then did diagnostics to see that a number plate light was out?

The light came back a week later so took to the garage who on plugging it in said the number plate light was being recorded

a walk around the car should have told them that, how much did they charge you for that !!! ?

Then after two visists and killing your central locking, they tell you that its a wiring fault which they already knew to be an issue.....

I would say they are robbing you blind.

Check the fuses, the central locking not working could just be a simple blown (or removed) fuse.

you can check this wiring issue yourself. There are loads of threads on this forum which will show you how to check for it.

the boot can be opened from the inside by folding down the seats, and pressing a tab on the lock from inside the car.

I suspect at this stage you have probably paid quite a lot of money for fixes and diagnostics that you didn't need or at least could have all been done together if necessary saving you a fortune. the routine of keeping you coming back means they get to charge you a diagnostics fee each time which can be anything from £50 - 100 a pop.

 

[Derbyfella]

I’m guessing they couldn’t properly diagnose the initial problem so dealt with the symptoms….presuming they aren’t fiat specialists?

 

[AnthonyH]

Hi

I have a 2009 Fiat 500 which had the generic warning light come up. I replaced the battery as I was told it was not holding charge. The light came back a week later so took to the garage who on plugging it in said the numberplate light was being recorded so they would replace bulbs which they did but they said also the button on the boot was not working but I said I would leave that for now (I always used the key to open it so never realised). When I got home I found the central locking had stopped working and the boot wont open using the button on the key so I took it back. They then said the electrical wiring which is a common issue had perished so needed to be replaced.

Any thoughts ?

Thanks !

Sounds crooked to me. You can never be 100% sure but you came home with more problems than you started. Don't go back to that garage.

 

[John202020]

So glad I replaced mine with the silicone kit! I do not understand why ppl just bodge and go as it’s bound to fail again!! Unless of course the car is getting sold on … and the new owner is unaware

I fixed ours with silicone wires, something has failed as I cant open the boot 6 years on another job to overcome

 

[jrkitching]

I’m guessing they couldn’t properly diagnose the initial problem so dealt with the symptoms….presuming they aren’t fiat specialists?

In fairness to the garage, an independent garage with no specific experience of the 500 might not know about the hatch wiring problem.

If someone brought me a generic car with an electrical issue and I wasn't familiar with it, I'd test the battery, and if it was weak, I'd change it. If I saw a bulb was out I'd change that, too. Without specific 500 experience, there's no way an average person's first thought would be a hatch wiring fault.

Of course, anyone who's used to the ways of 500's would always check the hatch wiring as the second step (the first would be to disconnect the battery negative terminal!), but if the garage wasn't a fiat specialist, how would they know to do this?

but you came home with more problems than you started

In the worst case scenario, anyone can trigger £1000+ worth of damage to a 500 simply by opening the rear hatch.

 

[chris3234]

I doubt they are conning you

Just little experience with fiats and no the best at diagnosis probably parts cannon type place

 

[virtualfern]

Thanks for the comments and I guess I will never know. Maybe best thing to do is see if I can check the wiring for myself. Yes they are just a generic garage. Is it advisable for a non mechanical person to attempt to replace this wire loom on their own? Thanks!

 

[jrkitching]

Maybe best thing to do is see if I can check the wiring for myself

You can certainly check the wiring for yourself but it is critically important to disconnect the battery negative terminal first.

If the wiring is faulty and you unfortunate enough to have the wrong two wires touch together when the loom is powered, you can cause damage to electronic components that could cost more than the value of a 2009 500 to repair.

There have been reports of fried airbag ECU's after hatch wiring faults.

You may need to peel back some of the wrapping tape to inspect the loom properly.

Is it advisable for a non mechanical person to attempt to replace this wire loom on their own?

That depends on how good you are at fixing stuff. The skills are more electrical than mechanical. If you could safely repair a hedge trimmer after you'd just sliced through the power cord, you could probably do this. If you wouldn't take that on, don't take this on either; find an auto electrician instead. Note that garage mechanics usually aren't that great at repairing loom faults.

If it's repaired using standard automotive cable, it will fail again. The kind of cable used to manufacture test leads would be a better choice.

You may need to remove some trim to get back to sound wiring; remember that 15 yr old plastic parts will be brittle and are easily broken.

You need to work methodically; if you connect the wrong wires together and power up the car, you could cause some expensive damage.

 

[steveras57]

You can certainly check the wiring for yourself but it is critically important to disconnect the battery negative terminal first.

If the wiring is faulty and you unfortunate enough to have the wrong two wires touch together when the loom is powered, you can cause damage to electronic components that could cost more than the value of a 2009 500 to repair.

There have been reports of fried airbag ECU's after hatch wiring faults.

You may need to peel back some of the wrapping tape to inspect the loom properly.


That depends on how good you are at fixing stuff. The skills are more electrical than mechanical. If you could safely repair a hedge trimmer after you'd just sliced through the power cord, you could probably do this. If you wouldn't take that on, don't take this on either; find an auto electrician instead. Note that garage mechanics usually aren't that great at repairing loom faults.

If it's repaired using standard automotive cable, it will fail again. The kind of cable used to manufacture test leads would be a better choice.

You may need to remove some trim to get back to sound wiring; remember that 15 yr old plastic parts will be brittle and are easily broken.

You need to work methodically; if you connect the wrong wires together and power up the car, you could cause some expensive damage.

Agreed! its also useful to take some digital photos of the loom from different angle BEFORE starting any work so you have a start point frame of reference if things get difficult or confused!

 

[virtualfern]

Well I am pleased to say I fixed it myself (well with some Dad help who was a TV engineer). Taking a look myself we found around 6 of the wires were broken from boot operation. One by one we soldered the broken wires back together and added tubing over each repair (when heated with hairdryer it shrinks into place. We thought success but still no central locking. The. We checked the fuse which was blown (probably from all the short circuiting) so replaced it. Low and behold it worked !!!! So we can lock doors and open boot with key. It took some perseverance over 2 hours+ but saved probably £400+ being quoted by the garage. Did not need to buy a new boot mechanism!. Hopefully that should solve the issue for a while but I know it’s an area of weakness so we will see !!!!

 

[The Panda Nut]

I am unfamiliar with the silicon fix. I take it this is replacement of a section of wire with silicon insualted wires with greater flexibility? Im staggered at how bad this looked even after reading of many people with the same issue. Well done for repairing it. Pics are useful to many as well, I am sure.

 

[A3jeroen]

I am unfamiliar with the silicon fix. I take it this is replacement of a section of wire with silicon insualted wires with greater flexibility?

Yes it is. I am offended by manufacturers (not just Fiat, but premium too) that still used stiff copper wiring in places like this.

gr J

 

[The Panda Nut]

Yes it is. I am offended by manufacturers (not just Fiat, but premium too) that still used stiff copper wiring in places like this.

gr J

Agree it is BAD engineering design.