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They released the Dirty great Panda in 2004 it was referred to as such as compared to the classic mk1 Panda it was monster truck sized and fiendishly complex...
The new Fiat Pand(in)a
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The new Fiat Pand(in)a
They released the Dirty great Panda in 2004 it was referred to as such as compared to the classic mk1 Panda it was monster truck sized and fiendishly complex...
The Panda Nut
Nutty about Pandas Infected by Panda virus and OPD
I didnt think it was much bigger thanthe original, but I never had one of them. I have been tempted recently by a few really good restorations.
I call the latest one the cake fed Panda.
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It was...original one was 3411mm long..current Cross is 3700mm.
If it grows by the same amount again...it will be... exactly the same size as a C3...odd how things work out.
Mk1 Punto was just 3760mm so the current panda is now equivalent to the original Punto.
Under the circumstances that seems like the perfect description
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It is and cars in the Punto class are now regularly more than 4m long..
They can absolutely transplant a PSA petrol engine, particularly the smaller ones, into the existing Panda with minimal engineering if it meant keeping the existing factory in Italy running longer (which they seem keen to do - but didn't Alfa Romeo decide it was to take over it so they can build all their cars in Italy?).
But if the Avensis was anything to go by, it probably will feel like a huge after thought with crappy gearing and if it's only produced for 3 years or less, it means buyers will be suck with an engine most of us Fiat people on the forums with decades of experience can't advise on too well, and that people on Citroen / PSA brand forums or pages will also not be too knowledgeable on. As an owner that does DIY stuff, it was crap in the Toyota having a lack of information. And they change all sorts of random things like the ECU and bits attached to make it fit, that are all new but they don't exactly publish an in-depth and transparent list of changes made either.
I'd honestly love to see the current cake fed Panda generation live on. People are still buying it, spending their hard earned money on it. Putting their family and friends in it. Interesting to see if it'll pull off a 4 or 5 star Euro NCAP rating with the same body... just with electronic gizmos added. It was more how the metal crumples and the few tests it did have not restraining the occupants properly that put me off. Even with the smart tech and even with a 5 star rating, I suppose I'd still be a little concerned. Safety is the sole reason I didn't buy a fully loaded new Panda or even fairly recent one and went for the CT.
Seems like they are going to (as mentioned previously) keep selling the current Panda alongside its replacement for a few years. Didn't the 169 get sold as the 'Panda Classic' for a while when the current one landed? I see weird 'Renault Clio Campus' models too, I presume that was a similar thing. The outgoing 500 is called the Classic now is it not? Seems like the same strategy. Digital gauge is an easy way to make it look good on test drives. Probs using PSA electronic bits and software with a Fiat theme. These are the things buyers care about on a test drive to make a decision... if it works for VAG to sell cars because of how the door feels to shut, or how quiet it is compared to a Honda, despite Honda having superior engineering, then it will work for Fiat to keep selling the Pand(in)a I suppose!
But if the Avensis was anything to go by, it probably will feel like a huge after thought with crappy gearing and if it's only produced for 3 years or less, it means buyers will be suck with an engine most of us Fiat people on the forums with decades of experience can't advise on too well, and that people on Citroen / PSA brand forums or pages will also not be too knowledgeable on. As an owner that does DIY stuff, it was crap in the Toyota having a lack of information. And they change all sorts of random things like the ECU and bits attached to make it fit, that are all new but they don't exactly publish an in-depth and transparent list of changes made either.
I'd honestly love to see the current cake fed Panda generation live on. People are still buying it, spending their hard earned money on it. Putting their family and friends in it. Interesting to see if it'll pull off a 4 or 5 star Euro NCAP rating with the same body... just with electronic gizmos added. It was more how the metal crumples and the few tests it did have not restraining the occupants properly that put me off. Even with the smart tech and even with a 5 star rating, I suppose I'd still be a little concerned. Safety is the sole reason I didn't buy a fully loaded new Panda or even fairly recent one and went for the CT.
Seems like they are going to (as mentioned previously) keep selling the current Panda alongside its replacement for a few years. Didn't the 169 get sold as the 'Panda Classic' for a while when the current one landed? I see weird 'Renault Clio Campus' models too, I presume that was a similar thing. The outgoing 500 is called the Classic now is it not? Seems like the same strategy. Digital gauge is an easy way to make it look good on test drives. Probs using PSA electronic bits and software with a Fiat theme. These are the things buyers care about on a test drive to make a decision... if it works for VAG to sell cars because of how the door feels to shut, or how quiet it is compared to a Honda, despite Honda having superior engineering, then it will work for Fiat to keep selling the Pand(in)a I suppose!
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If they put the turbo in...it'll have similar characteristics to the 1.3mj which I think having driven the 1.1, 1.2, 1.3 and 100hp was my favourite one.
The mid range torque of the diesel in something that small and light made for fun. Of course the 1.3 diesel only managed 140lb/ft whereas the 1.2 PSA petrol manages 151lb/ft over a much broader range. By comparison a twin air manages 107lb/ft.
It could proper little weapon with the engine from a C3 in it... although they'd likely use a none turbo which will be good for high rpm enthusiasts but not particularly interesting otherwise.
I note Fiat have committed to make a million cars a year in Italy in an attempt to get some government funding...I suspect ramping up production of an improved Panda is a cheap way of doing that.
The mid range torque of the diesel in something that small and light made for fun. Of course the 1.3 diesel only managed 140lb/ft whereas the 1.2 PSA petrol manages 151lb/ft over a much broader range. By comparison a twin air manages 107lb/ft.
It could proper little weapon with the engine from a C3 in it... although they'd likely use a none turbo which will be good for high rpm enthusiasts but not particularly interesting otherwise.
I note Fiat have committed to make a million cars a year in Italy in an attempt to get some government funding...I suspect ramping up production of an improved Panda is a cheap way of doing that.
Of course to make a million cars in Italy they have to sell them, and in the last few years fiat's sales numbers have tumbled significantly. given their Polish Factories could make twice as many cars with half the workers, as all the factories in Italy put together. They could be setting themselves up to fail.
I heard the other day the CEO of stellantis got the CEOs of all the various brands together and said "you have the funding, you have 10 years" after which if they were not performing they would be gone, so we can at least expect another 10 years of fiat, but if they don't make some big changes, there is no favoritism, and they could be for the chop.
I heard the other day the CEO of stellantis got the CEOs of all the various brands together and said "you have the funding, you have 10 years" after which if they were not performing they would be gone, so we can at least expect another 10 years of fiat, but if they don't make some big changes, there is no favoritism, and they could be for the chop.
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But if you're thinking cars built in Italy for Italy..the Panda by far their best selling model with 50% at least going on the home market.
The new Jeep is built in Turin I believe as well..or somewhere in Italy anyway..as is 600.
The new Jeep is built in Turin I believe as well..or somewhere in Italy anyway..as is 600.
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Just to call myself out here...it's actually the Compass that's made in Italy in Melfi and the 600 is made in Poland where it would appear they've re-tooled the 500 factory to build CMP platform cars.
However back in last March it was said by unions that Panda production would continue until least 2026 at the current factory so perhaps they are trying to make it vaguely competitive somewhere other than Italy as an entry level car now nearly all the existing rivals have disappeared.
One of those things...even Dacia has a digital dash now so if you're going to compete should probably make a mild show of keeping up.
Bonefish Blues
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I've never been clear what benefit digital dashes confer? A bit like touchscreens.
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No idea...the higher end ones tend to be very configurable so you add things like sat nav directions in.
At this level probably not, I suspect the main thing it adds is lower component costs due to being able to be standardised as everything but the software level which will likely be just a skin and making sure all the inputs from the sensors display correctly.
There's a good chance the screen being tested is the same 7 inch drivers display as the Corsa, 208, Mokka etc etc. So they can order them by the million at the lowest possible price and then use software to put different hats on it.
At this level probably not, I suspect the main thing it adds is lower component costs due to being able to be standardised as everything but the software level which will likely be just a skin and making sure all the inputs from the sensors display correctly.
There's a good chance the screen being tested is the same 7 inch drivers display as the Corsa, 208, Mokka etc etc. So they can order them by the million at the lowest possible price and then use software to put different hats on it.
Renegade and Compass made in Italy
Latest 4x4 compass has four wheel drive courtesy of ICE for one axle and EM for second axle judging by look underneath
Avenger still not got 4x4 as I think they’re playing with EV and hybrid connotations and US still not taking up growth predictions for EV
Latest 4x4 compass has four wheel drive courtesy of ICE for one axle and EM for second axle judging by look underneath
Avenger still not got 4x4 as I think they’re playing with EV and hybrid connotations and US still not taking up growth predictions for EV
Touch screens are dirt cheap now and the R&D Costs of touch and other screens is very low, they just need to work on software.
Buttons cost a lot more and each separate button takes a lot of testing before it can be put into production so the development costs are way higher
Bonefish Blues
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So benefit to the manufacturer, but nothing to me (actually, I'd argue that touchscreens in particular are a big step backwards)
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What if they help make the Panda profitable enough to make a business case for and the alternative is they can it?
To me I've had a touchscreen car for years, the stuff on the touchscreen is usually stuff you rarely use multiple times a journey..or it has a physical button as well. Set ups without this can get in the bin (hi Volkswagen, Tesla and MG looking at you).
In terms of small cheap cars though it gets rid of a lot crappy poor quality buttons and leaves more budget for the ones you use regularly. DS3 we had had separate climate and radio bits..both of which were on crappy dot matrix displays or scattered round the cabin on buttons also the radio was buried down by the gearknob because the climate control took up the space further up. Also it had 2 separate identical column stalks one for cruise and one for the radio..both felt identical but one side increased speed on the cruise the other stereo volume. It was an ergonomic mess...
Changing any settings involved squinting at a small orange display...
The touchscreen car has no tiny crap buttons and the 6 buttons it does have are far larger and conveniently placed for things you use all the time.
Finally here's an English delivered C3..
Here's a french delivered C3...
Far better than dicking about with stickers...note it even converted my 40mph speed limiter setting to 64kph.
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They are building hydrogen Vivaros in the UK so Stellantis would appear to have Commercial vehicle hydrogen tech that is production ready.
I think discussions on the benefits and drawbacks of touchscreens have been exhausted on this forum, but in essence in around 2010 manufacturers started putting LCD screens in luxury cars in place of the usual needles indicating the speed and such, needles were based on old tech when you had a cable drive and wires that specifically went to the fuel tank and then the dash to indicate level.
These days every signal in a car is being sent back and forth digitally via canbus, they have to put stepper motors in the dash and make other complex electronics just to display the same information with needles because that is what people were used to.
Now these days people want lots of screens and colours to match cars from the luxury end of the market. Manufacturers are happy to oblige as it works out cheaper and less complex their end.
And just to clarify we’re not actually talking about “touch screens” with respect to the panda, you’ve been able to get touch screens in a panda for years. The photos above show a panda where the instruments have been replaced with an LCD and in that application it makes no real difference to the user as long as the information is displayed clearly
Bonefish Blues
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Yes I know - it was me that diverged off into touchscreens as well as e-instruments, but if you say that discussion is exhausted on the Forum I'll not mention it further.
