Technical Slight lumpiness briefly old cold start - Twinair

[benmac]

Thoughts on this one if you'd be so kind! 2014 twinair 4x4 with 51k miles

On cold start it catches fine but then for about 3 or 4 seconds it's a bit lumpy with a bit of a shake. Then it settles down to the typical Twinair buzz. Drive it and it's fine and get a bit of heat into it (as little as a couple of miles), stop and restart and there's no lumpiness.

It had new plugs, oil and air filter a couple of hundred miles ago all of the exactly right spec (bought from Shop4parts).

Any ideas or is that normal? Duff engine mount maybe or thinking about the actual workings of the engine coil pack, clean the uniair filter??

 

[jrkitching]

Any ideas

Sadly this could be the first sign that the uniair module is wearing out.

But you need a proper diagnosis before forking out £1000+ to replace it.

 

[benmac]

Ah bugger. Hey ho. If it is, it is. Part cost aside is the module something that's easy to fit?

 

[Panda IIs]

Thoughts on this one if you'd be so kind! 2014 twinair 4x4 with 51k miles

On cold start it catches fine but then for about 3 or 4 seconds it's a bit lumpy with a bit of a shake. Then it settles down to the typical Twinair buzz. Drive it and it's fine and get a bit of heat into it (as little as a couple of miles), stop and restart and there's no lumpiness.

It had new plugs, oil and air filter a couple of hundred miles ago all of the exactly right spec (bought from Shop4parts).

Any ideas or is that normal? Duff engine mount maybe or thinking about the actual workings of the engine coil pack, clean the uniair filter??

Mine is the same - more noticeably in cooler weather. My diagnosis is the oil draining from the UniAir actuators overnight and, combined (or) possibly, the cold start algorithm over fuelling until it gets some feedback.

My UniAir unit failed some 40k miles ago and (in my case) experience suggests it either works or doesn't(!) have a read in the attachments. There are a few threads on here regarding the gauze filter cleaning but I suspect if that gets clogged there are going to be other oiling issues. From the attached, one of the biggest takeaways should be the importance of regular oil and filter changes.

 

[Panda IIs]

Ah bugger. Hey ho. If it is, it is. Part cost aside is the module something that's easy to fit?

Mine was replaced by an Alfa specialist but by looking at the description/schematics of the unit it looks like the unit can be separated from the head/top end of the engine without disturbing the cam or head itself. That said I would personally want some more insight before tackling it, at the end of the day it is only "nuts and bolts" but the correct sequence is everything! By the way Fiat customer care did provide for a 10% discount as gesture "of goodwill" since the unit failed at 49k miles which I thought was a bit premature. With hindsight I actually believe this was quite generous since the car was new to me and had no apparent service history (but perhaps detail in their "system" said otherwise).

 

[benmac]

Interesting, ta. The oil drain down possibility makes sense in the way if left for a while oil filled tappets can be really clattery for a few seconds. As it stands once those few seconds have passed it's quite happy and I am "looking for it" you could say. My wife hasn't noticed it at all. I think I'll pop the filter out and give it a look over and clean along the "can't do any harm" way of looking at it (he says before cross threading it going back in). On that score there's a decent thread on here for it but this one on the Alfa Forum has a bit more detail.

https://www.alfaowner.com/threads/strainer-filter.1206904/

 

[Vic20]

Was a 'Uniair Reset' carried out after the oil change?

 

[benmac]

Nope, DIY'd it. What's that? Some sort of relearn procedure? Damn, had a look around before doing it and didn't come across that.

 

[Vic20]

Yes, it resets the learning parameters of the uniair unit for fresh oil. Can be carried out with Multiecuscan.

The correct Selenia oil was used I presume?

 

[benmac]

Yeah, exactly the right Selenia oil, wanted to make sure it had the right stuff in it as it'd been serviced the last two occasions at a non specialist so I was keen to be sure.

Right, I'll get set up with multiecuscan. I've got an OBD - USB cable from fiddling with BMWs but might go down the app and bluetooth/wifi OBD dongle route for ease.

 

[Eltezz]

Yeah, exactly the right Selenia oil, wanted to make sure it had the right stuff in it as it'd been serviced the last two occasions at a non specialist so I was keen to be sure.

Right, I'll get set up with multiecuscan. I've got an OBD - USB cable from fiddling with BMWs but might go down the app and bluetooth/wifi OBD dongle route for ease.

If you are going to use MES most users will recommend that you don't use a bluetooth or wifi dongle as they are slow and unreliable. A fast OBD cable is the way to go. This is the device I use with MES:

OBD link SX

 

[benmac]

Thanks. OK, I'll try with the PC and cable. Will have a go with the one I have. If no joy will get that one. Am downloading MultiECUscan now - I presume the oil reset function is not in the free version (fair enough)?

 

[Eltezz]

The free version is read only. You can only reset codes or make changes with the full version.

 

[Panda IIs]

Thanks. OK, I'll try with the PC and cable. Will have a go with the one I have. If no joy will get that one. Am downloading MultiECUscan now - I presume the oil reset function is not in the free version (fair enough)?

Hi there, please do update us (me!) on whether a Uniair reset makes for any difference to the start up characteristics. I'm thinking all it can do is relate the oil temperature (it has its own oil temp sensor) to spec (viscosity). Happy to learn on this subject.

 

[benmac]

ECUmultiscan bought but my cable won't play ball. It is one i bought for my BMW so must be different. The computer does know it's there as does ECUmultiscan but not enough to talk to it so I'll get one of those ones linked above and go from there.

Defeated by that for now I did pop the Uniair filter out. Absolute doddle. It was harder to remove the little plastic 1/4 turn cap above it than the filter itself. Did that with some long nose pliers then just used a 15mm long socket for the filter with loads of room. Blasted that through with carb cleaner and it was clean as a whistle. As such, might have been nice if there was crap in it as a possible fix but at the same time the fact there isn't crap swilling round the system is a good thing.

It is weird. Before just now I hadn't driven the car since early this morning and then that was only a 5 mile round trip. Just now started and went straight to smooth idle and it must have been cold.

 

[varesecrazy]

That Alfa Guide IS very good
Just bought a Mito myself, my 3rd TA
So looking forward to seeing how this all pans out

 

[Vic20]

It should work with the most basic of OBD adaptor. You might need some of these adaptor cables though to see certain ECU's

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Goldplay-MuECUScan-Adaptor-Adapter-Cables/dp/B07DXHJ116

 

[The Panda Nut]

I notice my TA does this sometimes, other times it makes a variety of funny tapping and rattling noises and occasionally it sounds awful... I gesticulate at it and remonstrate in very bad Italian. It has never failed to respond within usually 30 seconds. Its done it since new as did the previous one. Keeping the uni air filter clean is essential or the system may be sluggish until full pressure required is achived. I believe uni air failure would be running on one cylinder or failing to start. You might possibly get poor perfomance or just find power delivery is inconsistent or odd. Try going up a few steel hills in high gear and giving it some welly to encourage full power at low revs. The Uni air unit varies the amount of valve opening and the valve timing. I think the suggestion it either works or not is likely sound. The use of the correct oil cannot be overstated due to the miniature nature of the components and the requirement for consistent oil pressure. I was watching car SOS the other day and the man from Millers oils was saying he thinks oil needs changing at 9000 intervals on all car and that extended oil changes are not good. I have a lot of time for Millers and feel this more or less off the cuff comment from a non sales person may be well worth noting. I am happy for my TA to have new oil at a MAX interval of 9K and dont mind if its more often for this reason. I hope yours is cured. I must check my filter too. The TA is well known for collecting mayo due to the sealed crank case. All the dealers I have asked across UK agree its normal to see mayo in the filler neck and one advised regular flushing, but thats not something I like for several reasons. Thanks for the comments and your report in your work too. Its all useful info.

 

[benmac]

Little bit more on this. Got MultiECUScan up and running last night with my new cable. All good. Took the car out to get it nice and warm as I can recall reading that's needed for the Uniair reset. Did the reset procedure. Not sure what I was expecting but it only takes a few seconds. Finish message was a little odd, can't recall it exactly but it was a bit indistinct as to whether it had completed successfully or not although just before that it seemed to say it had worked.

Been out in it just now after sitting overnight. First start and literally a fraction of a second of "wobble" before settling to the normal Twinair thrum. Given that I'm probably really looking for the issue now I'd say that's definitely done something if not fixed it totally. I shall continue to monitor.

All my immediate things are now done (did the front discs and pads on Saturday). Now onto my "nice to have" but not essential list of things to do.

 

[Panda IIs]

Little bit more on this. Got MultiECUScan up and running last night with my new cable. All good. Took the car out to get it nice and warm as I can recall reading that's needed for the Uniair reset. Did the reset procedure. Not sure what I was expecting but it only takes a few seconds. Finish message was a little odd, can't recall it exactly but it was a bit indistinct as to whether it had completed successfully or not although just before that it seemed to say it had worked.

Been out in it just now after sitting overnight. First start and literally a fraction of a second of "wobble" before settling to the normal Twinair thrum. Given that I'm probably really looking for the issue now I'd say that's definitely done something if not fixed it totally. I shall continue to monitor.

All my immediate things are now done (did the front discs and pads on Saturday). Now onto my "nice to have" but not essential list of things to do.

Thanks for the ongoing feedback. Did this require any data input from you? Oil grade or the like??