Technical Intermittent non-starting

[Juliann]

I have searched but not really finding the solution.
05 1.2 petrol 4x4 .
Sometimes doesn’t start, no starter click or crank. Repeated attempts yield nothing. Other times; starts absolutely normally 1st time. Battery seems to be fine (12.6v).
Same issue with both keys.
Looking at fault finding:
Does this model have an immobiliser ?(3 button remote unlock keys)
Is there a relay before the starter solenoid?
Thanks for any help/suggestions

 

[koalar]

When it not starting

Look at the dash light

Oil
Battery
Immobilizer
Engine check light


It's likely to be earth lead, starter motor, ignition lead, battery, loose alternator lead

But there's isn't enough information to narrow it down yet

The key has a transponder, it's read by both the engine computer and body computer


If not read correctly the car will not start but will still crank normally

 

[Juliann]

When it not starting

Look at the dash light

Oil
Battery
Immobilizer
Engine check light


It's likely to be earth lead, starter solenoid, ignition lead

But there's isn't enough information to narrow it down yet

The key has a transponder, it's read by both the engine computer and body computer


If not read correctly the car will not start but will still crank normally

Thanks for your excellent help again-I can rule out immobiliser then . Will check earth, solenoid & ignition

 

[koalar]

If it's the earth, fairly common so the first check

The engine block will start to go hot as you crank

Multi meter in the engine block (cleaned)
Multi meter on battery negative (cleaned)

Meter on around 20V

While trying to cranking it should be under 0.2V, if under 0.2V while cranking it's not the earth you can mover on

Here's a block going hot, bulb lights

Here the dash lights lights wrong

Ignition on

Engine Check, Oil and battery should be on

Padlock should be off


If you put the interior light on you should see it dim a bit as you turn the key to crank, if it goes out you have a power feed issue, if it does nothing just stays bright you need to check the ignition switch

 

[koalar]

When it's not starting, what do you do to get it going again

 

[Juliann]

When it's not starting, what do you do to get it going again

Bump it. Surprisingly easy compared to my BMW 530d Auto , ha ha .

 

[Juliann]

It’s, typically, working fine now so can’t find a fault. I’ll have to try again when it’s playing up !

 

[koalar]

Yep, when it's dead it's easier to diagnose

You can try wiggling the earth lead under the battery tray as someone try to crank the car, remove the fuel pump relay to stop it from starting,

I have had two ignition switches fail, with a dead spot on them, a garage said they were very common,

When it fails you can try turning the key very slowly to the crank position, and/or turn it slightly more firmly

I could always get them going again from the driver's seat by playing with the key a bit

Luckily the starter solenoid wire is accessible from under the bonnet making it easy to verify if the ignition switch is sending voltage to solenoid, without crawling under the car,

but we rarely see them on this forum though

 

[koalar]

Bump it. Surprisingly easy compared to my BMW 530d Auto , ha ha .

Great
Can't be immobilizer
Can't be anything regarding the engine running

The cranking on the Panda is pretty basic, there's no electronics


Switch
Wires
Battery
Starter

Another quick test you can do when it fails

Tap on the solenoid while someone turns the key

Don't go mad, hitting too hard will damage the
magnets

 

[Juliann]

This will be jinxing myself but….no more issues in the last week after I last had a fiddle. The issue would appear to have been poor connection at the starter, although with location and problems with my hands, it was difficult to do much more than just wiggle the connections a bit, so needs a more agile handed person to check long term.

 

[koalar]

This will be jinxing myself but….no more issues in the last week after I last had a fiddle. The issue would appear to have been poor connection at the starter, although with location and problems with my hands, it was difficult to do much more than just wiggle the connections a bit, so needs a more agile handed person to check long term.

Maybe someone's been here before?

It looks looks like an aftermarket starter

Fiat use a few different suppliers hatatchi, denso but they normally have the fiat part number and barcode on them

You need to run the car up ramps to have easier access to the starter motor rear connections, I have chubby arms it's not too bad from underneath

 

[Juliann]

Maybe someone's been here before?

It looks looks like an aftermarket starter

Fiat use a few different suppliers hatatchi, denso but they normally have the fiat part number and barcode on them

You need to run the car up ramps to have easier access to the starter motor rear connections, I have chubby arms it's not too bad.

The car has had most things replaced…literally most. I think the 1st, and only other, 90yo owner was hoodwinked somewhat.
It’s historical arm damage that’s the limiting factor unfortunately.

 

[Trimdoner]

We've had this problem with all four of our Pandas - 2 petrol, 2 diesel.
The stupid little spring underneath the solenoid connector on the starter rusts (sometimes completely) and ends up with a start/no start lottery for ages before it gives up altogether.
The plastic case which holds both the main starter cable and the solenoid connection hides all the important bits - if the spring washer has disintegrated you can probably replace it with a rubber o-ring (loads available) to tighten up the connection. Sorry, I haven't got any photos or diagrams, apparently from the dealers you need to buy the whole starter wiring loom......

 

[Juliann]

We've had this problem with all four of our Pandas - 2 petrol, 2 diesel.
The stupid little spring underneath the solenoid connector on the starter rusts (sometimes completely) and ends up with a start/no start lottery for ages before it gives up altogether.
The plastic case which holds both the main starter cable and the solenoid connection hides all the important bits - if the spring washer has disintegrated you can probably replace it with a rubber o-ring (loads available) to tighten up the connection. Sorry, I haven't got any photos or diagrams, apparently from the dealers you need to buy the whole starter wiring loom......

That’s really helpful; thank you