Technical Anyone had luck deleting DPF and bypassing EGR? Fault Codes P0401, P0402, P0238 - 2016 Fiat Ducato 2.3L Twin EGR

[Antheethan]

Hi everyone, I recently purchased a 2016 Fiat Ducato 2.3L 180 multijet comfortmatic. I have been getting fault codes P0401, P0402 and P0238 nearly every time I have driven it. After doing a bit of reading on these helpful forums it's become apparent to me that I have the twin EGR engine and am suffering similar issues to others regarding the LP EGR cooler.

Now my question is, has anyone had any success in deleting/removing the DPF and bypassing the EGR system as a solution to this? There is not much info at all on the internet about bypassing the EGR system and DPF removals on these Fiat Ducatos...
Thanks very much
- Ethan

 

[priorphilip]

Not sure how exhaust measurement are done in NewZealand but (alt least) in Germany - and I'd rather say - in Europe, that does not work. Since last year (2023) its forced by law to count particles on Euro6 vehicles, but even with old rules you would not be able to pass the inspection without DPF.
Whats the rule in NZ?
To answer your question finally... I havent heard of anyone being able to deactivate and remove dpf/egr. Whats the value of it?

Your issue seems to be 100% the one I've solved on my vehicle: https://www.fiatforum.com/threads/d...nged-what-do-i-check-next.491167/post-4744546

 

[Antheethan]

Not sure how exhaust measurement are done in NewZealand but (alt least) in Germany - and I'd rather say - in Europe, that does not work. Since last year (2023) its forced by law to count particles on Euro6 vehicles, but even with old rules you would not be able to pass the inspection without DPF.
Whats the rule in NZ?
To answer your question finally... I havent heard of anyone being able to deactivate and remove dpf/egr. Whats the value of it?

Yeah, I was coming to that assumption myself...
Here in New Zealand it isn't 'actively policed'. As part of our required yearly vehicle inspections, they are just required to 'sight the DPF' and move on.
I was wondering if one was to both delete/remove the DPF and bypass the EGR the fault codes would never appear again.
I haven't found any information on anyone attempting this on these twin EGR Ducatos.

I just read your post, you were having the SAME issues as me. So you haven't had any fault codes since?

 

[priorphilip]

Yeah, I was coming to that assumption myself...
Here in New Zealand it isn't 'actively policed' and I was wondering if one was to both delete/remove the DPF and bypass the EGR the fault codes would never appear again.
I haven't found any information on anyone attempting this on these twin EGR Ducatos.

I just read your post, you were having the SAME issues as me. So you haven't had any fault codes since?

Nope, all good since then. Also the measured parameters like LPEGR position are completely different now. As I mentioned - the sieve was completely clogged. I would think, removing it does not harm (What should it even be, right after the DPF?)
Just check whether your DPF is okay and can be reused with a professional cleaning.

 

[Hank25]

Nope, all good since then. Also the measured parameters like LPEGR position are completely different now. As I mentioned - the sieve was completely clogged. I would think, removing it does not harm (What should it even be, right after the DPF?)
Just check whether your DPF is okay and can be reused with a professional cleaning.

The sieve is there to stop solid particles from going straight into turbo and damaging it.ie if the Dpf cracks it may send some solid particles thru cooler into turbo without sieve.And yes there are people in NZ who can delete one or both egr s and remove Dpf inners and rewrite ecm to not “see”that items are removed.If it was me providing the Dpf isn’t blocked I would only delete the troublesome lpegr and cooler.This would give you a vehicle that is at least the same or less in emissions than most diesels on NZ roads.

 

[theoneandonly]

In the UK I dont know of anyone that has had the DPF or EGRs deleted on a twin egr model. It is being reported that in general DPF/ egr deletes are being policed more . DPF refubishment as permited elsewhere in europe is not in the UK. More invasive MOT testing is expected, it is already happening in Spain. Europe is not just the EU and individual countries have individual rules. the following is an extract from a Motorhome forum
"Well two years on and we went back forITV, (MOT)things have changed since our last visit, this time they plug something into the ODB port 2017 ducato. never had that before."
My view is deleting is not a valid way of getting around a known problem, the solution to which is quite well known and easy (if not costly)

 

[Antheethan]

In the UK I dont know of anyone that has had the DPF or EGRs deleted on a twin egr model. It is being reported that in general DPF/ egr deletes are being policed more . DPF refubishment as permited elsewhere in europe is not in the UK. More invasive MOT testing is expected, it is already happening in Spain. Europe is not just the EU and individual countries have individual rules. the following is an extract from a Motorhome forum
"Well two years on and we went back forITV, (MOT)things have changed since our last visit, this time they plug something into the ODB port 2017 ducato. never had that before."
My view is deleting is not a valid way of getting around a known problem, the solution to which is quite well known and easy (if not costly)

Yeah ok interesting. Thankyou for your input and views on the situation. This forum is an absolute wealth of knowledge

 

[priorphilip]

The sieve is there to stop solid particles from going straight into turbo and damaging it.ie if the Dpf cracks

Yes, sure. A metal mesh would also do the job.
The real question is: Why is a dustproof filter installed for this?

A LPEGR that I ordered by mistake only has a perforated sheet metal mounted. So I would think, making lots of little holes into the sieve would make it working same way without running into same issue again and again.

 

[aschoots]

I would not opt to replace the original 'seive' filter at the LP-EGR cooler outlet. In addition to (less likely) DPF ceramic particles, it is also possible (and more likely) that soot forms a solid layer insite the cooler tubes which can be released at some point. The 'seive' type filter is there to protect the turbo.

A better solution is to cancel the LP-EGR operation. I have just written an update of my experience here: https://www.fiatforum.com/threads/d...ro-6-egr-changed-what-do-i-check-next.491167/

 

[theoneandonly]

Alternative reason ive been given for the sieve is not as a filter but a spark arrester.

Ducato P0401 P0402 P0236 P0238 and limp mode its 2017 Euro 6, EGR changed, What do I check next | FIAT Ducato

Can I bring some comments here. It is me who started this thread. I've been though all of this with our 2017 Comfortmatic that I ordered as new build from my Fiat dealer. I've designed and built my camper layout and maintain my own van and car. I've over 50 years of car repair / rebuild /...

www.fiatforum.com

has this photo of a blocked cooler cut in half

 

[priorphilip]

Doesnt look too bad. I dont believe replacing is required generally - cleaning with break cleaner and compressed air is sufficient. The sieve holds up particles that could harm - even oil and

 

[theoneandonly]

Doesnt look too bad. I dont believe replacing is required generally - cleaning with break cleaner and compressed air is sufficient. The sieve holds up particles that could harm - even oil and

I think this is an example of a very blocked cooler the 8 channels (with bent tubes ) have coolant passing through. the outer chamber has the gases passing through with "black stuff" condensing in the channels.
A different cooler blocked sieve.

 

[priorphilip]

Nope. When removing the sieve you'll see the rips. Its the gas channel

 

[aschoots]

Nope. When removing the sieve you'll see the rips. Its the gas channel

That would be logical, on the gas side (low density) you need a large surface area -hence the fins- to transfer heat (think radiator).

 

[theoneandonly]

Looking at the next photo it does look like the coolant is an outside jacket and i interpretated the first photo incorrectly.

 

[theoneandonly]

Does anyone know where the temperature sensor for lpegr-cooler is mounted?

 

[aschoots]

It is located downstream the LP-EGR cooler, just before the valve - see picture:

 

[priorphilip]

It is located downstream the LP-EGR cooler, just before the valve - see picture:
View attachment 445077

Correct.
BTW: Thats why Downstream LPEGR gas temperature on blocked EGR sieves is lower than gas and coolant water temperature.
As far as I remember, its not very accessible and may require removing axle carrier.