@theoneandonly sorry to be a pain but my vans turbo lag ,do you think it could be due to blocked LP cooler ,I was thinking turbo would be sucking air through a obstruction and cause a negative pressure drop? . I will still get actuator changed,as seeing access is not possible without extensive work.. might as well do it now .
Technical Ducato P0401 P0402 P0236 P0238 and limp mode its 2017 Euro 6, EGR changed, What do I check next
- Thread starter Fredastaire
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Technical Ducato P0401 P0402 P0236 P0238 and limp mode its 2017 Euro 6, EGR changed, What do I check next
theoneandonly
Established member
Looking back at old data of LPEGRcoolers i have seen no turbo issues with actual generaly meeting desired pressure but also this one. When the Mil light was thrown the turbo is effectively turned off. I don't remember any turbo or solenoid being repaired at the time. @Fredastaire.
Note the seriously low temperatures.
Ok thanks, interesting seeing different van diagnostics, slowly learning!
Fredastaire
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@Serrow225 and @theoneandonly if you can refer many many pages back, I included a drawing to show the internals of the LP EGR. This device includes two functional items, one is the flap valve which opens the EGR to allow it to suck exhaust gas, the other device is a butterfly which begins to close when the EGR flap is (say) half open thus to blend clean and dirty airs together. At the graph 4.7 this butterfly closes off the fresh air from the air filter - with a blocked off cooler the engine is strangled. As I've said before if I put a scarf around your neck and pulled it tight you too would not breath and would collapse.
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The pair of graphs make it so obvious..
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So it's cooler change time .....
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The pair of graphs make it so obvious..
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So it's cooler change time .....
I've got your drawing printed off and in my folder and have read this thread from page 1 , and my mind spends much of its time thinking about EGR stuff
.. and all my conversations at work are explaining how twin EGR system should work, hopefully by June I'll just worry about how much I spend on super diesel 
theoneandonly
Established member
Diagnosis isnt always as simple as p0xxx and p0xyz means change this,
What we are seeing is an example of a problem giving 2 symtoms that taking independantly would give different diagnoses. But with mes we can at least test for the second to prove it is just a result of the first (cooler blockage). What is interesting is that i am seeing another engine that has previously had a blocked cooler but is now showing low turbo actuals, is this a real turbo side issue or due to blocked cooler the lpegr test are very good so i am awaiting other test results.
What we are seeing is an example of a problem giving 2 symtoms that taking independantly would give different diagnoses. But with mes we can at least test for the second to prove it is just a result of the first (cooler blockage). What is interesting is that i am seeing another engine that has previously had a blocked cooler but is now showing low turbo actuals, is this a real turbo side issue or due to blocked cooler the lpegr test are very good so i am awaiting other test results.
I guess a good test would be I changed my LP cooler and from garage do test run on MES , comparing before and after on turbo lag , but problem is if it still has same result, I would be looking to change turbo actuator, and I would be paying for another days labour.
So if both items changed the test drive home on MES will only prove cooler is free flowing and turbo lag ( if gone ) could still be ether or?
So if both items changed the test drive home on MES will only prove cooler is free flowing and turbo lag ( if gone ) could still be ether or?
theoneandonly
Established member
before changing cooler the turbo solenoid can be tested and in part of the test the actuactor can be seen to be opperating (from underneath)
Hi done MES test on solenoid (was new replace item) it clicks , actuator seems to work (could be sticking/or not moving correctly)but would I risk it whilst subframe off , I'm happy to change it and know it's done .
theoneandonly
Established member
Refreshing to see a change from anthing to save 2 quid. But i doubt its needed.
Fredastaire
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As an update, im still surviving with the technique of using the expensive high spec diesel dosed each fill up with Millers ecomax. Im also in contact with another victim of the blocked cooler syndrome, he was getting the fault codes and limp mode with his Ducato car transporter; he has now used the Trade cleaner Cataclean twice. a bottle has 500ml and costs £16.99. from having limp mode 3 times per week hes gone to having no problems for the last three weeks. Maybe having a heavy loaded Ducato and doing long distance runs with Cataclean it may have self cleaned its cooler? ive no idea if he has done any new test runs with Multiecuscan, Perhaps one of our members with current problems might give it a try? Separately ive been helping another guy who runs a Ducato flatbed lorry version, hes been getting various fault codes of 236 and 238. I did a MES data collection run; at first I couldnt see any readings from many sensors / egrs; then it started giving readings; his DPF was well % full. in brief he had vibration damage to the DPF exhaust temperature sensor wiring whereby the vibration has caused the wiring to scuff through its outer protector sleeving and the wiring insulation; then this resulted in an intermittent electrical short. PVC electric tape was used to give insulation, after two weeks fault free running ive just done another live data capture run with MES, all fine, EGRs working fine, cooler temp acceptable, more important the DPF is now very clean on its percentage. Result is a happy Ducato owner,
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It makes a change to give happy news.
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It makes a change to give happy news.
I definitely agree with your comments on heavy loads and constantly running engine helps reduce problems, my company van ( transit )I drive 8 to 10 hrs a day , loaded with tools etc and has had the most basic service in its 100,000miles and runs like clockwork, I'll look into cataclean as a back up for future for my Ducato.
aschoots
Member
I can confirm that also for manual the lastest version is v32. See attached pages from the 2019 FIAT Service News 10.023.19 (v2) for our Euro6B Ducato's which lists v32 for all models. It is in Dutch, but it should be clear.
theoneandonly
Established member
As i understand it all comformatics presented for update end up at V32 but unless there is a problem with manuals there is a reticence to change from V28 though i do know examples that have been updated to V32. In the UK There appears to be little commenality in the Fiat pro set up with some dealers doing free updates if required but no update on request and others that will update for a fee. I was refused an update at 2 dealers but one then stated it could be possible with a cambelt change cost almost 1300 pounds at the 2nd dealer i paid 740 that included a diagnostic check but no update as not required. (the 2nd dealer i refered to has updated Comformatics to V32 without asking or additional cost. I would love to know the difference between 28 and 32. Currently i have data from 2 manuals that have had no problems one at V28 and V32 with no obvious difference in graphical data, unlike good to problematic engines. I have very little data on actual regens taking place to be able to say there is a difference between 28 and 32. PS this is visible when using my template 4 with multiecuscan.
aschoots
Member
Hi all,
I have gone ahead and applied an "LP-EGR delete" ECU update. @Poachersmoon has reported earlier he has a LP- and HP-EGR delete done (in NZ by Peter James Tuning) and had no problems in a 5 hour trip. Since the LP-EGR delete I have now done around 1100km without any problems.
The proces is to unplug the LP-EGR connector so it won't move. This way no 'clean' exhaust fumes are transported back to the turbo inlet via the cooler anymore, which means the cooler (mesh) won't get blocked. And more importantly, the turbo and engine will only see clean air (apart from HP-EGR recycle). To prevent errors and emergency running the ECU update cancels 24 errors. I am told the following list is blocked: 0409, 0402, 0401, 0101, C405, 0489, 0488, 0486, 061D, 2111, 2112, 060E, 0638, 0639, 061F, 044A, 045B, 045A, 045E, 041A, 046E, 041A (again), 213B, 213A.
The ECU update is done via an Alientech Powergate tool: a) download the original ECU file to the Powergate, b) send the file to the tuner, c) tuner 'mods' the file and sends it back, d) upload the modded file to the Powergate, e) upload the mod to the ECU. Nice thing is the Powergate can hold multiple files, mine has the original (slightly tuned) ECU file, the LP-EGR delete, and the LP- and HP-EGR delete. It is an easy 20min proces to switch between ECU files. I can e.g. choose to switch back to original before going for MOT testing (or "apk" as is called in NL).
I know I will need to track 'health' of the engine (more) myself now these errors are cancelled. I am told 22 of these 24 are directly related to LP- and HP-EGR operation which should not give problems, the other two are for communication with cruise control and the MAF sensor.
I want to check / this, and prepare a periodic manual check of engine health to ensure this error cancel does not hide anything serious from being detected.
But, so far, so good.
Attached are some MES recordings from the 1100km trip this weekend and a short test / check drive tonight.
I have gone ahead and applied an "LP-EGR delete" ECU update. @Poachersmoon has reported earlier he has a LP- and HP-EGR delete done (in NZ by Peter James Tuning) and had no problems in a 5 hour trip. Since the LP-EGR delete I have now done around 1100km without any problems.
The proces is to unplug the LP-EGR connector so it won't move. This way no 'clean' exhaust fumes are transported back to the turbo inlet via the cooler anymore, which means the cooler (mesh) won't get blocked. And more importantly, the turbo and engine will only see clean air (apart from HP-EGR recycle). To prevent errors and emergency running the ECU update cancels 24 errors. I am told the following list is blocked: 0409, 0402, 0401, 0101, C405, 0489, 0488, 0486, 061D, 2111, 2112, 060E, 0638, 0639, 061F, 044A, 045B, 045A, 045E, 041A, 046E, 041A (again), 213B, 213A.
The ECU update is done via an Alientech Powergate tool: a) download the original ECU file to the Powergate, b) send the file to the tuner, c) tuner 'mods' the file and sends it back, d) upload the modded file to the Powergate, e) upload the mod to the ECU. Nice thing is the Powergate can hold multiple files, mine has the original (slightly tuned) ECU file, the LP-EGR delete, and the LP- and HP-EGR delete. It is an easy 20min proces to switch between ECU files. I can e.g. choose to switch back to original before going for MOT testing (or "apk" as is called in NL).
I know I will need to track 'health' of the engine (more) myself now these errors are cancelled. I am told 22 of these 24 are directly related to LP- and HP-EGR operation which should not give problems, the other two are for communication with cruise control and the MAF sensor.
I want to check / this, and prepare a periodic manual check of engine health to ensure this error cancel does not hide anything serious from being detected.
But, so far, so good.
Attached are some MES recordings from the 1100km trip this weekend and a short test / check drive tonight.
